His name is Mac Powell and you probably recognize him from Third Day where he was the front man for 25 years. Mac gets an Amazon delivery right in the middle of the interview (like we all do!), and he talks about how excited he is to be making music in this season and why it is such a season of thankfulness. Ready to dive in?
Interview Links:
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Game: Nine Square In The Air
Transcription:
Mac Powell: I’ll look at songs, especially lyrically like they’re like crossword puzzles. Cause you start out with a word or two and then know like, you have your word in seven across, you know, but you don’t know what your 11 down, but you have to use a little bit of the letter in seven across to be able to find the 11 down.
And so sometimes you’ll get like, let’s say house. Okay. I’ll go a house. Okay. I’ve got the house, what else can I say that goes with house? And so you kind of build it and shape it and use one thing to figure out the next thing.
Sarah Taylor: His name is Mac Powell. You obviously know that, not just because it says it in the title of this episode, but also Mac was the front man for Third Day for 25 years.
I called him the Seinfeld of bands. And you’ll find out why in this episode. We had so much fun. I want to get straight to the conversation. My favorite part is actually when Mac gets an Amazon delivery in the middle of our interview, as you do. He was out on his front porch so you’re going to hear some great natures.
No wonder this episode is going to be quite calming. Mac talks about how he’s more excited than ever to be making music, and I agree. We begin with talking about how this is really a season of thankfulness for him.
Mac Powell: No, there’s a lot of things that we all experienced and learned and are still actually, you know, we COVID is still happening. It’s uh, and I’m not trying to jump on one side of the argument, but it’s like, it’s still happening. I mean, it’s, there’s a lot of stuff not back to normal. And so I think it’s easy for me to kind of get in this mindset that, okay, we’re all good now, and we’re not necessarily. There’s still stuff to be careful about. Um, and things are not back to normal necessarily. I don’t know if they’ll ever be back to what we considered normal. Uh, but there’s some good in that too. You know, I think I learned some things and, and went through some things during COVID in the last year and a half.
Um, some things, you know, just in normal life, it didn’t necessarily have anything to do with COVID, but through all that good and bad, it brought me to really, I think I’ve always been thankful, but this season has really, really brought me to a place where I’m just, I’m glad to be here and thankful for even the struggle. You know, even the hard times, I’m thankful because you learn things in that.
So, thankful for most things.
Sarah Taylor: One of the other things you mentioned, and I wrote it down because I just, I loved it, it’s so counter-cultural you said you’re okay with getting older.
Mac Powell: Yeah, I am. I’ve just kind of embraced it. I, you know, what’s interesting for me and maybe this helps, but even when I was in my mid-twenties, people thought I was a lot older.
I don’t know it was cause the beard or what not. I didn’t have any gray back then, but it’s everybody always thought I was 35 when I was 25. That may have helped, you know, to kind of make it to where… now I still complain about it. I still go, man, you know, these bags under my eyes and these wrinkles and the gray and all that stuff, I can still complain about it, but also at the same time, I’ve, I’ve accepted it and go, you know, it’s all right.
I realize that everybody kind of pushes things, your perspective changes, the older you get, and like when I’m 20, I think people that are 40 are old. Now that I’m in my later of late forties, I’m like, you know, up to 55 is pretty good. You know, I won’t be old until after that. Once I get to my sixties, then 80 is going to be old.
So it all changes and you just, you know, go with it.
Sarah Taylor: You were talking a bit about Moses and how he had three chapters.
Mac Powell: Yeah. And that’s a big part of probably the past four years of my life. Really studying Moses. Looking at his life and just knowing, you know, the three different seasons of life for him.
Now, he lived to be 120. I’m not going to, I’m probably not going to live to be 120. I don’t know if I want to, to be in this, you know, necessarily, but from zero to what, birth to 40 years old, he was a prince of Egypt. He had the best of everything. The best training, the best food, the best home and all the above.
40 to 80… He lives in the desert. He has hardly nothing. And we often as believers, we look at, you know, the desert as a time of challenge, a time of hardship, and it is, but also he found his wife. He, he had children, he got in a stronger relationship with God. He found his true identity, I think in the desert…
And so of those two seasons, from 80 to 120, that 40 years, God used those first two seasons of life and what he learned, to have the biggest impact of his ministry of his life. And so it goes to help, you know, show that God’s never done with us. There’s no retirement in the, in the kingdom of God.
And so as I’ve gotten older I’ve realized, Hey, Moses did it, I can do it too. And, and God can still use me. And it may not be the same numbers and it may look different, but, uh, but I’m excited about being part of what God is doing. What helps me in the Moses story that encourages me once again, I’ve kind of already said this, but it’s to know just because Third Day’s over with, and that was such a successful thing.
In a lot of different ways, that doesn’t mean that my life is over. That was a part of my life. And I think a lot of people would look at that and go, okay, that’s the highlight of your life, but I’ve got a lot of years left. There can be some incredible things that happen in front of me. And even if they don’t, everything from now on for me is like icing on the cake.
It’s great. And so, um, so I’m thankful, you know, with this new season of, of being a solo artist, a new record coming out in October, new, single out now River of Life, you know, it’s, once again, it’s brings me to a place of being thankful. Now, my hope is, and I know as, as time goes on, it’ll get more difficult but right now I’m not at a place where I worry too much about chart position and, you know, gold records and all that stuff. I mean, you have to think about those things as an artist, as a businessman, but at the, our businessperson, but at the same time, it’s like, I just don’t, I don’t have the worry about that stuff.
You know, I don’t worry about Dove Awards and Grammys. If that stuff comes, I’m excited about it. It’s great. But it’s all extra stuff.
Sarah Taylor: I just, I love that perspective. It reminds me how you’re talking about, you know, when Third Day was wrapping up, I heard that you did not want to originally do that farewell tour.
Mac Powell: I did not. I well, and the reason why is not, because I didn’t want to play more music with those guys. It was because we had talked our whole life. What really kind of brought this on, and the first thoughts in our mind early on in our career, was the Eagles had announced that they were doing their Farewell Tour.
Well, of course, then they come back again and then they, and they keep going on and on. And we were like, we’re never going to do that. If we end up not working anymore and not doing Third Day we’re just gonna, we’re not going to announce anything. We’re just gonna, because you never know, five years later, six months later, you might change your mind.
So, we honestly, we knew when we did our farewell tour, a lot of people don’t realize we had not toured for a year and a half before that. Uh, we had hardly done anything. And so, we were already done, but most people didn’t know, they just thought we were taking a break. And so, in my mind, we were just going to fade away and then eventually in a few years, maybe do a few shows or whatever.
And what had happened was in the fall of ’17, Tom Petty died and it just rocked my world. And it just, even though I’d never met him, he was such a big influence on my life. And I don’t think I’ve ever, unless it was someone that I personally knew, I’ve never been affected like that when past, when someone passed away like a celebrity or someone I looked up to, and I know there’s been a lot of those people that I looked up to, but he was the one, for some reason, it just hit me hard.
I’m, I’m kind of walking around the house in a bad mood for like two weeks. And Amy is like, my wife, was like, what’s going on with you? And I said, my friend died. I miss my friend. Yeah, even now, it sounds silly, but it’s like, I’m tearing up thinking about it. And she called me like a week or so early and she said, I know you don’t want to hear this, we were off doing two different things, she said the way that you feel about Tom Petty, some people are gonna feel that way about Third Day, so I think you should do a farewell tour. And I said, yeah, I really don’t want to, but, and I’d already moved on, was doing, you know, I had dates on the calendar to do solo stuff and I was working on a country record and all this stuff.
So finally, uh, I called Mark Lee. We started the band together and we talked about it and what it would look like, and we had a very limited amount of time that we could possibly do it. And we made it happen in that time. And I’m glad we did it. It wasn’t an easy tour. Uh, it was kind of a hard tour because it was a lot in a small amount of time. But, but I’m very thankful that we did that and gave everybody a chance to at least a chance to come see us one more time.
Sarah Taylor: Third Day fans have Amy’s discernment and insight.
Mac Powell: Absolutely. I don’t think people understand, you know how much they owe to her, um, for us to do that. But, but even, you know, for many, many other things, uh, in, in the life of Third Day, you know, I say that about anybody, but it’s true about all the wives, uh, for the members that were in the band.
Um, they sacrificed so much for us to be able to do it.
Sarah Taylor: You guys have five kids. You’re totally a family man. Last time I interviewed you years ago, you were in carpool to pick up one of your kids and I love that.
Mac Powell: Did a wiffle ball game, turn that over here in the front yard to be able to come do this. So yeah.
Sarah Taylor: You, you were playing wiffle ball with, who? You got five kids.
Mac Powell: Well, let’s see. Two of my, my boys were playing and then I have my favorite cousin in the whole world who lives in Florida. He’s up with his family. They have five kids. So it was all of us cousins where there was about eight of us guys. And my daughter, uh, Verde Clara was playing as well.
So, we had eight of us, four on four with law and the old men won the tournament. And it just warmed my heart so much because I’m out there, I’m like literally tearing up because me and my cousin, Kyle, he was, he had three, he had two brothers. So there were, there were four of them. There’s a sister and three brothers.
So, it was always me and him against his two brothers. All day we would play wiffle ball in summertime together. And so now we never see them. They live in Florida and we’re all out in the yard playing ball. And I was just like tearing up going, thank you, Lord, for this blessing of seeing us when we were kids, our kids now are our age when we were, were we’re playing with the ball in the front yard.
Sarah Taylor: Your kids won the name, lottery such good names. Go ahead and go through the roster.
Mac Powell: Our oldest is 22 and she goes to Liberty University. Her name is Scout, like Scout from To Kill A Mockingbird, the book and the movie. My girl Scout, and it’s a different name, but I’m so glad we called her that. Cash, my son, he’s 19. He goes to Liberty. Uh, his name is, his full name is Johnny Cash Powell. Uh, Camie Love. Camie Love is, uh, 18, and she’s going to go to university, uh, Liberty University starting this fall in a couple of weeks. Then Emmanuel, he’s got the most normal name, Emmanuel Mosley Powell, uh, and he’s 12. And Birdie Clare, Birdie, like a little bird. Birdie Clare is 11.
Sarah Taylor: You and your wife are footing some tuition bills.
Mac Powell: You don’t even know. That’s why I’m still working hard.
Sarah Taylor: I feel like Third Day, when you guys exited, you’re really the Seinfeld of bands. You went out on a high note. I mean, soul on fire was all over the place on the radio station when you guys, yeah.
Mac Powell: It turned out better then Seinfeld because the last episode of Seinfeld was terrible.
Sarah Taylor: You are correct, sir. Okay. You are correct. You went off the air at your peak, just like Seinfeld, but yes, you did not have those final double episodes.
Mac Powell: Yeah. And you know, we had a, we had a record after the, the latest back record that had soul on fire, so, maybe some people could look at that, but I love that record. It was just one of those. It was very different than CCM. And so maybe somebody might look at that as the last episode of Seinfeld. I don’t know.
Sarah Taylor: One thing, one thing that I’m hoping you bring back when you’re touring this new record, it’s my favorite thing you do from this stage, when someone in the front row is on their cell phone…
Mac Powell: Yeah. Uh, for those listeners who have no idea, if I see somebody on their cell phone, uh, I’ll stop the song and I’ll go, come on, give me your phone and then I’ll talk to whoever’s on the other, other than go, Hey, we’re doing a concert here. If you don’t mind I want to get back to the show here. Trying to do it in a way where it’s not like old man getting onto the kids for being on the cell phone. I try to make it fun.
Sarah Taylor: You totally do. I mean, now people recording with FaceTime and stuff I feel like people, like if I was in the front, I do it on purpose just to see if you would talk to my friend.
Mac Powell: Right. That’s a good idea.
Sarah Taylor: Oh, by the way, your new song on the air River of Life. I love it. Thank you for giving all of us DJs, uh, opportunity to be able to say Mac is Back!
Mac Powell: Yeah. Yeah. There you go. I love that. I just talked to the label about using that.
Sarah Taylor: I think you should. Yes, please. Oh my gosh. I’d be honored. Take it. I also love though that you’re reaching a whole new generation. Right. So, um, and what I mean by that is like, okay, so I’ve been at the radio station for 20 years and when I first came as an intern, fresh out of college, you know, Third Day was just all over the place on the station and it was, it was great. Now I’m watching the new generation come into our radio station. A gal in her twenties is in our music meeting and I was playing river of life and she’s like, ooh, who’s this? How do you feel? I mean, she has no idea who Third Day is, but she loves this new song. You’re brand new to her.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Well, I love that and I, and hopefully there’ll be a lot more people like that. I mean, I, I think I’ve, I’ve been doing a lot of interviews in the past week or so, and a lot of people say, so what’s the new record like? You know, and, and I think, I feel like, you know, if they’re Third Day fans, I feel like are gonna like it. You know, they’re gonna, it’s going to be something that’s familiar to them, but at the same time, there’s a freshness to it that, you know, wrote with a lot of different writers, which I’ve never done before doing Third Day stuff.
And so I think that new perspective that new freshness and way of looking at things has helped me, me grow as a writer. Um, as it’s brought me a new excitement, and, uh, and it’s, I think at the same time, even though it’s brought some freshness, it’s solidified what was there in the first place. And so I think there’s a, my hope is there’s a little bit of something for everybody, you know, a Third Day fan is going to like it, and then hopefully if someone wasn’t necessarily a Third Day fan, it’s going to be something new for them.
Sarah Taylor: I just, I love kind of this thread of not just thankfulness, but of these fresh new opportunities, this excitement that you have about this next chapter. And I’m going to go back to it a little because it’s so counter cultural. Everything in our industry like says, you know, once you reach a certain age or, or even a status level, like you’re out.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Well, and I think there’s through the years, there’s so many great examples of, you know, people who, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, what’s interesting that in the entertainment industry within Hollywood, but it seems like there’s so many more stars like who get into their fifties and even sixties, there were so much older and they’re still continuing to make blockbuster films, you know, and get, and get paid a lot of money to star on these, you know, action movies and all that stuff.
So, it’s like, Why can’t we do that in music? It’s a lot easier in music to sing than it is to jump off a building or whatever. So, um, you know, and there’s some great artists. I’ll look at somebody like Michael w I toured with Michael and Steven in the fall of last year, we called it the three Amigos. And you know, I’m 48 and yet,
and those guys are a little bit older than me, and I I’m still feel like a little kid and I’ve known them for 25 years, but I’m still going, like I get out my phone was like, there’s Michael W Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman, you know? And so they’ve inspired me, uh, and, and a lot of other great arts too, that, that you can just keep doing this, you know, as long as people want to hear it, we’ll keep making music. And, um, you know, great artists who’ve been around for a long time.
You’ve got somebody like Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson is not necessarily on, you know, country music charts anymore, but when he puts out a record, people are paying attention. Paul McCartney is still making great records in his seventies and goes out and is one of the still to this day, one of the greatest shows I’ve ever seen.
So, it’s like you can continue in music to be older and still make great music.
Sarah Taylor: We’ll be right back with our conversation but first a heartfelt thank you to our sponsor Northwest University. Have you heard NU is all in on tech? They’ve got a brand new state-of-the-art technology studio and majors include UX design, data science, video production, audio production, and computer science. These programs add to an already diverse offering of top programs in business, nursing, education, sciences, communications, psychology, music, humanities, and more.
Plus, NU has robust scholarships. This is on top of their already low tuition. Ministry majors in the traditional undergrad program receive a 50% scholarship. Northwest University’s Christ centered community always stands out spiritual vitality is their firm foundation. And with career readiness initiative, you’ll graduate with endorsements in career specific skills that give context to your resume.
When you choose NU, you’re choosing a confident start to your calling. In other words, your passion and purpose. Now back to this week’s episode.
Sarah Taylor: You have such an unmistakable baritone voice. You’ve mentioned, you know, like you would hear Hootie or you’d listen to Pearl Jam or something and you would hear those baritones, you’re like, yes I can do this.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Cause there was for so long in the eighties, there was this high and even in pop music and in like metal music and hard rock, it was like kind of stuff, and I can’t do that. Uh, I just did, but, you know, I can’t do it all the time. And so I was just glad that, you know, Darius Rucker had a song on the radio and Travis Tritt has a great baritone voice. Even those guys, those guys still sing a little bit higher than me. It’s like in that range.
And it was like, finally, some people are getting hits that don’t have to sing really high. That’s how I learned how to sing harmony was I couldn’t sing the lead on all these songs. I couldn’t sing with Kenny Loggins so I hadn’t sing his, you know, harmony with all those, you know, Disney hits or what a movie hits.
Sarah Taylor: Who in our industry does the best Mac Powell impersonation?
Mac Powell: Lot of people trying to do it. It’s not the best, but I like to hear Mike Donehey, when he tries. And Matt Maher… when they both try is so cute.
Sarah Taylor: Can you do an impersonation of their impersonation? What do they get right and what do they get wrong?
Mac Powell: They, everybody just thinks that I, [Mac humming] that I do that. I don’t listen to my records. They don’t sound anything like that. I don’t go her. So far, I don’t, I don’t do that, but that’s what they think I do.
Sarah Taylor: What’s your impression of either of them?
Mac Powell: Oh man. I could probably, I don’t do impressions good, but you know, it’s interesting as is they both, well, I won’t say it.
They both have unique voices as well, and they’re a little bit more like they had, they do this John Foreman kind of Kermit the Frog kind of thing sometimes. I don’t think they realize they do. And it’s so awesome. I love it.
Sarah Taylor: But you’re not going to do it.
Mac Powell: I can’t do it.
Sarah Taylor: Okay. Okay.
Mac Powell: I’m so glad. I just, I hope Mike Donehey and Matt Maher see this, and say…
Sarah Taylor: Oh we’ll make sure that they get that clip. I will take care of that for you, sir.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Matt’s been trying to do an impression of me on the road for a while so now I’m getting back.
Sarah Taylor: Yeah. I like it. I like it. You saw Rich Mullins in concert and something inside of you goes this… I want to do this.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There was a, this very organic kind of thing. I don’t know. It was like when I saw him, he had a bunch of people on stage and it was like acoustic guitars and no drums, but like percussion. And so I just thought, man, this is a really kind of a cool kind of combination of these organic instrumentation things and yet, somehow, I [thank you] I just got an Amazon delivery. Um, but I thought that there was something about just the simpleness of, of this, this organic acoustic, people singing harmonies. Absolutely loved it. And when we start out Third Day, it was, it was like that it was kind of more acoustic. And then we slowly got more rock.
Uh, so I don’t know, there was something special about his music, his writing, uh, his performance that just hit me to the core. Even though I love, love rock music, I grew up. Um, my parents both play guitar, acoustic guitar and sing, and so I was always around, so the singer songwriter thing was always kind of deep down is really who I am, I think.
Uh, and I like both, but when I, when I experience that, there’s something about it that, you know, is so once I used to keep using the word organic and I hate that, but just kind of broken down and simple and melodies, and it’s not about whatever, just computers and stuff like that. I just love the basics of that.
Sarah Taylor: For people like me that are not songwriters, it is sort of, it’s fascinating. How someone like you is able to take a song that never was, something like show me your glory… didn’t exist and you get this idea and then music comes in and lyrics come in and all of a sudden, we’re all singing along with a song that helps us pour our heart out to God. And it’s like you birth that these little songs babies.
Mac Powell: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me, let me correct you in the sense, but it’s what you’re saying is true, but show me your glory was written by Mark Lee, our guitar player. But yes. Yes. Oh man. It’s an incredible song and, and I’ve just started singing it for the first time in years. So, uh, I love that song. I love singing.
I always have, since the first time I heard it, I was all of us in the room when he played the first time we went, that’s a hit. Let’s go record it right now. I think we literally went and recorded it right then. Um, but yeah, that idea of having, you know, just this kind of idea of Papa and I get it and it’s, it’s a little bit.
It can be a little frustrating sometimes because especially to my wife, cause there’s constant melodies, there’s constant thoughts. Sometimes, and I’ve, I’ve read some and heard some interviews with McCartney, it’s the same for him that he, please, I’m not comparing myself to McCartney, but when he said this, I relate is that you, sometimes you get these ideas and you go, okay, who, who is that?
Surely, I didn’t come up with that? That’s somebody else’s idea. And you go, what song did I hear? And I forgot that I heard it, and now this melody’s coming out. And so you have to be careful about that too. But there’s a constant, I’m constantly beaten on the steering wheel when I’m driving and got this melody.
And it’s fun. I love it, but it can kind of be, it can be irritating sometimes too, because you’re not, you’re not at a place where you sit down and really work it out or whatever. But it’s fun and that just feels like there’s a source. Of course, I know what that source is. Um, but it’s constantly just flowing, you know, uh, almost like that river of life. Just flowing and that you just got sometimes, someone said, but I don’t believe this, but someone said, it’s almost like songs are already written and you just got to find them. And it’s almost like if you saw a sculpture out of marble the figures already there, you just gotta remove everything else around it to get that figure or that body or that shape or whatever.
And it’s kinda like that with a song. The song is there, you just gotta remove everything else. I don’t necessarily look at it. I look at it more like building blocks and putting something together. I’ll look at songs, especially lyrically like they’re like crossword puzzles. Cause you start out with a word or two that are like, you have your word in seven across, you know, but you don’t know what your 11 down, but you have to use a little bit of a letter in seven across to be able to find the 11 down.
And so sometimes you’ll get like, let’s say house. Okay. I’ll go… house. Okay. I’ve got the house. What else can I say that goes with house? And so you kind of build it and shape it. Use one thing to figure out the next thing.
Sarah Taylor: You’ve self-admittedly said you don’t have good handwriting. Do you ever jot down lyrics, and you can’t read what you wrote later?
Mac Powell: Yeah, absolutely. That and melodies, I’m a melody guy. Melody usually comes first. So, I’ll start with the melody and then I’ll try to add what is this song going to be about? And hopefully those things kind of come together at the same time. I’ve gotten to where in the past five years I have a lot of melodies on my recorder, on my phone, on my voicemail, but I’ve gotten now to where if I don’t have a word or a line, at least then I just don’t even bother with it cause there’s so many melodies that just come easy. You got to have something to go with that melody, just to have a foundation, a starting ground. So, it’s, yeah, it’s interesting. I love songwriting. I love how different people approach it from different ways. And I know I’m kind of rambling rabbit trails now with you, but, um, as I told you earlier, when I was writing this record, I’ll start going to Nashville, which I had not really done a lot before.
I’m not, I never did that with Third Day music. I’ve done it with some country stuff that I’ve written, but as far as like going, starting from the beginning, January of 2020, I said, all right, right now, I’m going to every week to Nashville and I’d go Thursday through Friday or Saturday and set up meetings and go and write with people and I’d come home, and then the next week I’d go do it again. And I was doing that for two months until COVID. And, and kind of slowed us down a little bit. And then we discovered this new word called zoom and, uh, and you know, that I thought that was going to be terrible. And it what’s interesting, every writer that I talked to when we were first going, Hey, what’d you think about the first time you Zoomed?
He’s like, nobody wanted to do it. Cause like when you’re not in the room together, it just kind of feels different. And yet you get so much more work done when you’re not there in the room, cause you’re not just kind of joking around that stuff. And then, and then somebody is going to get coffee and this and that. It’s like, you’re just going to work. So a lot of times I would, we would write songs in less than two hours, like a whole song in two hours, just cause it was all about getting it done. So, um, that being said I’d much rather, still be in the room, but I got no problems when somebody says, hey, can we zoom? I’ll go absolutely. I don’t even know why I started talking about this. What was the question?
Sarah Taylor: I think I was no, that’s totally fine. Plus, uh, our time is done and there might be another radio station waiting for you. So, I believe that our job is done.
Mac Powell: We started out and I won’t ever, you didn’t say that. I want everybody to hear this. We started out and you were like telling me before we started recording, you were like, I’m glad to be talking to you. Cause you’re a chatty Cathy. And I’m like, I’m so sorry and here I am talking for 15 minutes straight. I’m sorry.
Sarah Taylor: Oh, it’s wonderful. Oh, my word that’s exactly what I was hoping for. Um, do we have time to find out what that is in that Amazon box or do you have to go?
Mac Powell: Hold on a second. I think I know what it is, but let me say, hold on, give me two seconds. I actually got three things. I’m so stinking excited about this. I’m going to open up just one cause they’re all the same. They’re just different kinds. So we go to our ranch every year and they have this game called *Nine Square. Look it up online, Nine Square in the Air it’s called. And if you order the game set, it’s $500. I’m like, I’m not doing that. I’m gonna make it. So I ordered a bunch of PVC pipes, so I can put together this game called nine square. So that’s how cheap I am to make it myself and spend $150 doing it as opposed to $500.
Sarah Taylor: Oh, we’re going to link to that in the show notes. Maybe you should, uh, make a YouTube tutorial for people on that. Mac, thank you so much. Mac is back!
Mac Powell: Mac is back! I’m totally stealing that from you.
Sarah Taylor: Our thanks to content coordinator, Rebecca Beckett. Also, fantastic editor and producer, Scott Karow of Terra Firma, and my pal Corey Mann for today’s prep notes. Corey’s like your buddy who you copy notes in class, cause when it comes to interviews, the man gets straight A’s. So be sure to subscribe to his podcast, “What Else? With Corey Mann.” And finally, thanks to Northwest University for making the Passion Meets Purpose podcast possible.
